Gnostic Christian Bishop

Does God demand equality?

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Does God demand equality?

My Gnostic Christian God demands equality of all peoples as a part of our Universalists beliefs.

Most religions also preach some form of equality yet also preach homophobia and misogyny. Why are most believers denying equality to the vast majority of those not in their particular religion as well as to many within their own circles?

It seems that Gods do demand equality. Love thy neighbor as yourself, or some other reciprocity rule, are in every major religious tradition. It seems that the religious believe in equality just as little as they believe in their Gods who demand it. What happened to fearing God and doing as he commands?

I cannot see the world solving its problems, be they religious or political, while the vast majority, the religious, deny equality to the other majority who are not of their particular religion. That religious hatred against gays, women and those in other religions must stop. Religious hate of others puts more hate than good into our societies and prevents rapprochement.

We, as individuals, are quite good and altruistic. This is quite apparent if one looks at the statistics of our progress as a people in other moral areas. It is our religions and other social institutions and governments that are evil, not the people, as many governing hierarchies have institutionalized misogyny in their written policies.

Our last great challenge against justice, our hate directed against gays and women must be set aside if the harder challenges we face, if there are any, are to be defeated.

That hate is holding back our rise in being civilized people. I urge all men to look at their mothers, daughters and wives, and wonder why they do not see them as equal or demand that their religious laws make them so.

I urge all women to ask the men in their lives why exactly they continue to promote the hate and inequality of gays and women through their support of homophobic and misogynous policies.

Does your God demand equality and why are you, --- you meaning all religious people, --- not granting it?

Regards

DL

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You make a lot of posts here as if you are searching, seeking for knowledge.  I can't give you a ready answer myself.  You have to come to the realization of that knowledge yourself, in your own heart.  Doesn't all knowledge ultimately come from God?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

"All men" meaning, of course, all women, too.  At least that's the way I take that.  And I believe strongly in those words.  That doesn't leave anyone out.

 

We, as individuals, are quite good and altruistic.

No, I don't agree with that as you have stated it.  I mean, we were, and that was so in the beginning of Creation, and that was God's intention and will, but we all fell with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, when they listened to the voice of the Serpent.  Even yet today, we all experience that fall when we outgrow the age of innocence.  Yes, there are good and altruistic people in this world, but we don't measure up to God in that way.

 

Your questions are very heartfelt.  A sense of injustice, that something has to be made right.  But no matter who we are, we are not going to please the whole world--and certainly not "all religious people"--with our way of life, or our identity, or our gender or whatever other characteristics we were born with or developed or acquired.  If it is only external condemnation we face, in a free country, we can ignore that and live our lives.  That is thanks to the good and altruistic traits of our founding fathers.  But if we face some internal condemnation, either in our own conscience or if we have internalized what other people say about us, then we have questions, and we want to find peace within ourselves.

 

In any case, don't internalize hatred other people may have for you.  You can't right the whole world.  You can only seek for the knowledge to right things within your own self.  But Gnosticism only goes so far.  It rightly seeks knowledge, but it doesn't come to the realization of that knowledge in the heart.

 

Do not think I am condemning you.  I have unanswered questions myself, and I do not always know how best to formulate them.

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You make a lot of posts here as if you are searching, seeking for knowledge.  I can't give you a ready answer myself.  You have to come to the realization of that knowledge yourself, in your own heart.  Doesn't all knowledge ultimately come from God?

"All men" meaning, of course, all women, too.  At least that's the way I take that.  And I believe strongly in those words.  That doesn't leave anyone out.

 

No, I don't agree with that as you have stated it.  I mean, we were, and that was so in the beginning of Creation, and that was God's intention and will, but we all fell with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, when they listened to the voice of the Serpent.  Even yet today, we all experience that fall when we outgrow the age of innocence.  Yes, there are good and altruistic people in this world, but we don't measure up to God in that way.

 

Your questions are very heartfelt.  A sense of injustice, that something has to be made right.  But no matter who we are, we are not going to please the whole world--and certainly not "all religious people"--with our way of life, or our identity, or our gender or whatever other characteristics we were born with or developed or acquired.  If it is only external condemnation we face, in a free country, we can ignore that and live our lives.  That is thanks to the good and altruistic traits of our founding fathers.  But if we face some internal condemnation, either in our own conscience or if we have internalized what other people say about us, then we have questions, and we want to find peace within ourselves.

 

In any case, don't internalize hatred other people may have for you.  You can't right the whole world.  You can only seek for the knowledge to right things within your own self.  But Gnosticism only goes so far.  It rightly seeks knowledge, but it doesn't come to the realization of that knowledge in the heart.

 

Do not think I am condemning you.  I have unanswered questions myself, and I do not always know how best to formulate them.

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Where was I taking texts absolutely literally?  I know next to nothing about Origen, (wasn't he the guy that cut his own nuts off, or something like that?) but I'm not disagreeing or finding fault with the quote you have attributed to him.

A very literal example: Jesus talks about cutting off your right hand or plucking your eye out.  He certainly doesn't mean that literally.

 

You talk about myths.  Is it only the absolute literal interpretation of these texts you dismiss as a myth, or is it the deeper meaning behind them as well?  If there is valid truth and knowledge in these things in a deeper sense, are they still myths?

 

You are right that the Jews have no original sin concept.  But Adam and Eve gained knowledge of good and evil from that tree.  We all gain such knowledge as we grow past childhood.  With knowledge comes responsibility.  When we have true knowledge we know that our natures are evil and wicked, and that we are responsible for that evil nature.  Are we ever tempted to do something we know is wrong?  We know that we have that nature.  In childhood innocence, (or as Adam and Eve before they ate of that tree) we don't have that knowledge and we don't have the responsibility that goes along with it.  But as we become of age, we gain knowledge, and with it, responsibility.  That is the fall.

 

From one of your links, "The Original Meaning Of Original Sin"

 

In the Christian tradition, God created humanity to be immortal. In eating the apple, Adam and Eve brought mortality upon themselves. Jews have always seen humans as mortal beings.

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NotSoAnonymous, on 30 Jun 2015 - 11:16 PM, said:

Quote

Where was I taking texts absolutely literally?

If you profess a belief in God, and I thought you had, then you must be a literalist to some extent.

Where was I taking texts absolutely literally?  I know next to nothing about Origen, (wasn't he the guy that cut his own nuts off, or something like that?) but I'm not disagreeing or finding fault with the quote you have attributed to him.

A very literal example: Jesus talks about cutting off your right hand or plucking your eye out.  He certainly doesn't mean that literally.

 

You talk about myths.  Is it only the absolute literal interpretation of these texts you dismiss as a myth, or is it the deeper meaning behind them as well?  If there is valid truth and knowledge in these things in a deeper sense, are they still myths?

 

You are right that the Jews have no original sin concept.  But Adam and Eve gained knowledge of good and evil from that tree.  We all gain such knowledge as we grow past childhood.  With knowledge comes responsibility.  When we have true knowledge we know that our natures are evil and wicked, and that we are responsible for that evil nature.  Are we ever tempted to do something we know is wrong?  We know that we have that nature.  In childhood innocence, (or as Adam and Eve before they ate of that tree) we don't have that knowledge and we don't have the responsibility that goes along with it.  But as we become of age, we gain knowledge, and with it, responsibility.  That is the fall.

 

From one of your links, "The Original Meaning Of Original Sin"

That is interesting, because I can quote the book of the Wisdom of Solomon, which is certainly of pre-Christian tradition:

God said, when man fell into sin, "Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil."  And even the Psalms say

 

Seeking knowledge (of the mysteries of God) is not wrong. That was another of your posts.  But that knowledge needs to come to fruition or realization in the heart.

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Somehow this got off-topic.  It was partly my fault.  Maybe we can get back to the main point:

 

Most religions also preach some form of equality yet also preach homophobia and misogyny. Why are most believers denying equality to the vast majority of those not in their particular religion as well as to many within their own circles?

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Misogyny is described as dislike or hate of women. The mental part of rape is described as the desire to control women. The two terms may not fit well together as the motivation is not the same.

  

I can stretch my thinking to the misogyny part but how does a man raping a woman promote homophobia?

 The slightly more general idea of punishing women secretly for secret sins.  Does this take place in some religions?  I have no doubt it does, but I want to learn more.  I realize this may be triggering, but I want to understand the true depth of the problem. When you put together homophobia and misogyny, the implications are ominous.

None to my knowledge.

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@GCB

Misogyny is described as dislike or hate of women. The mental part of rape is described as the desire to control women. The two terms may not fit well together as the motivation is not the same.

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^^

 

"Men can dislike or hate women while still sexually desiring them. The desire of a man to control a woman and use her to satisfy his sexual urges can coexist perfectly well with misogynous hatred. Rape is not love."

Hate plays havoc with sexual desire which is based on attraction.

I have no experience to go by but I guess that one can hate what they are sexually seeking. It is a strange concept but may be possible to a misogynistic mind. A deranged mind may be able to do as you describe and a misogynistic rapist would qualify for having a disturbed and likely insane mind. IMO.

Regards

DL

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The slightly more general idea of punishing women secretly for secret sins.  Does this take place in some religions?  I have no doubt it does, but I want to learn more.  I realize this may be triggering, but I want to understand the true depth of the problem.

I'd better clarify my own point here.  I refuse to even talk about BDSM.  That's a whole other ballgame I'm not the least interested in.  I mean, read Fifty Shades. Some girl is playing sexual games with a twisted, sadistic, older man.  By the end of the book, he beats her up and she cries.  How exciting.  Literally.  Not.

 

What I'm really talking about is a bunch of rowdy guys who like to play tricks and pranks on some woman because she's gay.  In their sick, twisted misogyny.

 

What do you think of this?

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I am not sure how long ago it was but in the UK there have been cases of Muslim men beating women. A brother beat his sister for wearing make up and a father committed 'honour ' killing for her becoming too westernised. Sadly parents still are having daughters circumcised.

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I'd better clarify my own point here.  I refuse to even talk about BDSM.  That's a whole other ballgame I'm not the least interested in.  I mean, read Fifty Shades. Some girl is playing sexual games with a twisted, sadistic, older man.  By the end of the book, he beats her up and she cries.  How exciting.  Literally.  Not.

 

What I'm really talking about is a bunch of rowdy guys who like to play tricks and pranks on some woman because she's gay.  In their sick, twisted misogyny.

 

What do you think of this?

 

The most important point of this story to remember is that the guy in Fifty Shades is a billionaire.  What is accepted and exciting in that context is much different from what is accepted from a normal person.   I dont mean that his money allows him to do that, I mean that the girl finds the "power" of this guy such a turn on that she then allows things to happen that she would not normally.

 

This book is very very popular as a fantasy.

 

But to address the original question.  God ignores all equally, and allows all to suffer equally.   It does not matter if you are young, old, believe , don't believe.  You too can suffer equally.

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I am not sure how long ago it was but in the UK there have been cases of Muslim men beating women. A brother beat his sister for wearing make up and a father committed 'honour ' killing for her becoming too westernised. Sadly parents still are having daughters circumcised.

Not only Muslims girls are getting circumcised. Many Christian girls as well.

Stupid G D religions.

Regards

DL

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I tried to read this poorly written waste of paper. The author should be bound and gagged and I love freedom of speech but there is no excuse for poor publishing just because it is a taboo subject. Equality even if not through a religious belief is still an issue at large. With men earning on average 10% more than their counterparts.

Not only Muslims girls are getting circumcised. Many Christian girls as well.Stupid G D religions.RegardsDL

I had never heard this. It is apparently incredibly painful and can turn into a mutilation.

These practices are barbaric.

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I have conversed with only a few true men of faith and have been surprised that they are for the counselling of others rather than judgement and you seem to be one of the few that holds his own principles close and uses the teachings you have learned for the betterment not embittered.

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Would you like to explain to us how he has done this . Where and when and to whom  .

Take as long as you like to answer .

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I have conversed with only a few true men of faith and have been surprised that they are for the counselling of others rather than judgement and you seem to be one of the few that holds his own principles close and uses the teachings you have learned for the betterment not embittered.

Many thanks.

Regards

DL

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