Do you think that torturing a baby is ever justified?


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Do you think that torturing a baby is ever justified?

Have you seen this rather well done movie?

They end asking about a God who tortures babies as God did to King David’s baby.

God also killed many innocent babies in his great flood as well as the innocent first born of Egypt.

http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.ca/2010/02/gods-73rd-killing-god-slowly-kills-baby.html

Do you think that torturing a baby is ever justified?

Regards

DL

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  • 4 weeks later...

It shows a complete misunderstanding of how the universe works to even ask such an absurd question .

How many generations must pass  before schooling includes this subject --- The universe and how it probably works ? 

Somewhere early  ,  the curriculum  will include the obvious -- that a prime force is not dislocated from its constituent parts or make-up .

Namely , there is one collective Mind Force or Source Field as Wilcock labels it and not two --- him/it and separately "us" .

 

That Wandering Tramp chap has much to answer for  by insisting on the split between a metaphorical "Father " and his " Naughty Children ".

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Cannot even agree with that , Bish .

" As it is above is as it is below " -- or words to that effect  , is a mystical thought and basic to understanding the Universe . Or , that dimension of it that we might call spiritual .

Those that see it in literal terms miss the point by the proverbial .

I don't think it was  just the Greeks who missed or misrepresented the full truth . It surely reflects that the complexity of the message is lost on the majority of commentators .

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There a strange mortality in the world today.  If an animal was in severe pain it would be the right thing to put it down.   If a human (child, OAP, whatever) was in the same severe pain its the right thing to let it suffer.  Indeed in some places it is illegal to even help people commit suicide to end their own pain.

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There a strange mortality in the world today.  If an animal was in severe pain it would be the right thing to put it down.   If a human (child, OAP, whatever) was in the same severe pain its the right thing to let it suffer.  Indeed in some places it is illegal to even help people commit suicide to end their own pain.

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David and the mother's sin were the cause for the baby's death.  And the baby wasn't tortured. 

 

God gave life and he has the right to take it away, he's the only one that does.  And since his creation had corrupted itself it was his prerogative to end it and start over.

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I don't quarrel with your basic view , Flinty . However it always infuriates me to read of God being effectively  labelled  or painted as a wiser bloke sitting upwind and in charge of his toys -- that's how it "comes over " to me .

However , I do suspect that the universe is constructed in such a way that events like this are a fraction of one blink of  creation and in the fuller measure are of almost no consequence .

One of the next evolutionary steps , imo , is to see events in their fuller context and not just  a sequence of happenings to be labelled  only in terms of reward and/or punishment .

Development and Realisation are two other possible future labels .

 

Sorry if this reads as too obscure . But once we move from the literal , the right words are difficult to find . And certainly for me .

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David and the mother's sin were the cause for the baby's death.  And the baby wasn't tortured. 

 

God gave life and he has the right to take it away, he's the only one that does.  And since his creation had corrupted itself it was his prerogative to end it and start over.

What a sick view.

Are you a father and did you give your child life?

I did with my children and to say that I have the right to kill then just because I created them is quite sick.

You show how a religion can corrupt a persons morals. Thanks for doing my work for me.

You let a myth corrupt your morals and that is quite a foolish thing to do.

Regards

DL

I don't quarrel with your basic view , Flinty . However it always infuriates me to read of God being effectively  labelled  or painted as a wiser bloke sitting upwind and in charge of his toys -- that's how it "comes over " to me .

However , I do suspect that the universe is constructed in such a way that events like this are a fraction of one blink of  creation and in the fuller measure are of almost no consequence .

One of the next evolutionary steps , imo , is to see events in their fuller context and not just  a sequence of happenings to be labelled  only in terms of reward and/or punishment .

Development and Realisation are two other possible future labels .

 

Sorry if this reads as too obscure . But once we move from the literal , the right words are difficult to find . And certainly for me .

For evil to grow, all good people need do is not quarrel with those who show satanic morals.

You, by not doing so are saying you are ok with the torture and killing of an innocent baby.

Regards

DL

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You have completely missed my point , though perhaps I could have made it better .

Sticking with your comment :-

 I find the idea  or concept of "Satan" comical  because it is unnecessary --- the story on which it is based was simply the way those in charge  used an invented fear symbol to control the masses . I also do not personally think that there is anything called Evil which is not just a worst example (s) of things that are bad .

I feel that people now  use the label , Evil, when bad things reach a point that is generally judged impossible to comprehend by the vast majority .

That is , there is a continuum of bad and awful matters and that at some point it is useful to underline the scale and weight of their  badness by using this  different word , Evil ,  for emphasis  .

Often I am not prepared to label something as Evil because I am not God and very complex questions cannot be sensibly solved by over simple responses and attempted answers .

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You have completely missed my point , though perhaps I could have made it better .

Sticking with your comment :-

 I find the idea  or concept of "Satan" comical  because it is unnecessary --- the story on which it is based was simply the way those in charge  used an invented fear symbol to control the masses . I also do not personally think that there is anything called Evil which is not just a worst example (s) of things that are bad .

I feel that people now  use the label , Evil, when bad things reach a point that is generally judged impossible to comprehend by the vast majority .

That is , there is a continuum of bad and awful matters and that at some point it is useful to underline the scale and weight of their  badness by using this  different word , Evil ,  for emphasis  .

Often I am not prepared to label something as Evil because I am not God and very complex questions cannot be sensibly solved by over simple responses and attempted answers .

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  • 1 month later...

Of course it is not justified, It is  sin.

 

Clearly in your opinion .

But not in God's apparent opinion . I am sure you would agree that the so called God of the NT would not allow such happenings as lessons  for his beloved children ------ us ..

That being so , on whose teachings do you rely for your opinion ?

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Clearly in your opinion .

But not in God's apparent opinion . I am sure you would agree that the so called God of the NT would not allow such happenings as lessons  for his beloved children ------ us ..

That being so , on whose teachings do you rely for your opinion ?

How many different Gods do you think the bible is giving us and why should we place one above the other when the N.T. God seems to follow the same laws as the O.T. God?

Like the divorce or no divorce law.

Regards

DL

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I don't quarrel with your basic view , Flinty . However it always infuriates me to read of God being effectively  labelled  or painted as a wiser bloke sitting upwind and in charge of his toys -- that's how it "comes over " to me .

However , I do suspect that the universe is constructed in such a way that events like this are a fraction of one blink of  creation and in the fuller measure are of almost no consequence .

One of the next evolutionary steps , imo , is to see events in their fuller context and not just  a sequence of happenings to be labelled  only in terms of reward and/or punishment .

Development and Realisation are two other possible future labels .

 

Sorry if this reads as too obscure . But once we move from the literal , the right words are difficult to find . And certainly for me .

I agree with the premise of the proverbial being the literal in the terms of the greater consciousness and based on the assumption of time and space being able to be separated some day creating realities where the only inhabitants of child looking being that are  those who have abused children. Torture is a vast word and can cover many pains inflicted on another. I even believe the feeding of junk food to children can be interpreted as a form of torture. Nothing that brings pain to those we are meant to guide and educate to give them the tools of protection needed to have a healthy mind body and spirit is the only way to treat a child. Maybe as a mum I see things in a very narrow line for what is acceptable to our youthful changelings!!!! 

How many different Gods do you think the bible is giving us and why should we place one above the other when the N.T. God seems to follow the same laws as the O.T. God?

Like the divorce or no divorce law.

Regards

DL

Do you not see the error in your response? any being that is omnipresent can be one or many. This all powerful omnipotent being had his only son tied and nailed to a cross and stabbed in the side. Torture is allegedly acceptable for the leader of the lambs of god (sheeple)  but he had the bonus of having to call his son home to heaven after having him murdered in such a brutal way. Divorce law is nothing even akin to Divorce law. a concept from the C of E that is what saves many from torture. It can never be a just action. Execution is nothing more than being a martyr for an alleged crime committed. You are dying for what you believe in effect whether it be the slaughter of innocents or the taking of innocence for which in certain faiths is permitted. A tortured soul has trouble then processing the necessary to prepare for the after life or their next life. A tortured soul is not ok either the bible forcing guilt or else torture will be committed on the soul for eternity is still torture as it causes pain and inflicts inner scars that sometimes cannot heal. Torture is inflicting a painful action on another for the purpose of information. You can get more bees with Honey.  

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I don't think you can usefully  and directly compare Baby physical abuse to feeding babies junk food -- your example .

I feel torture is a useful label for the former because the acts are deliberate and intentional .

Tragically there are different motives underpinning the latter area ,  centred around ignorance and neglect . That is , much lower intent  .

I think the difference is a worthwhile one to note if only because the resultant actions will be very different -----  broadly punishment for torture and education for negligence with less severe punishments .

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I agree with the premise of the proverbial being the literal in the terms of the greater consciousness and based on the assumption of time and space being able to be separated some day creating realities where the only inhabitants of child looking being that are  those who have abused children. Torture is a vast word and can cover many pains inflicted on another. I even believe the feeding of junk food to children can be interpreted as a form of torture. Nothing that brings pain to those we are meant to guide and educate to give them the tools of protection needed to have a healthy mind body and spirit is the only way to treat a child. Maybe as a mum I see things in a very narrow line for what is acceptable to our youthful changelings!!!! 

Do you not see the error in your response? any being that is omnipresent can be one or many. This all powerful omnipotent being had his only son tied and nailed to a cross and stabbed in the side. Torture is allegedly acceptable for the leader of the lambs of god (sheeple)  but he had the bonus of having to call his son home to heaven after having him murdered in such a brutal way. Divorce law is nothing even akin to Divorce law. a concept from the C of E that is what saves many from torture. It can never be a just action. Execution is nothing more than being a martyr for an alleged crime committed. You are dying for what you believe in effect whether it be the slaughter of innocents or the taking of innocence for which in certain faiths is permitted. A tortured soul has trouble then processing the necessary to prepare for the after life or their next life. A tortured soul is not ok either the bible forcing guilt or else torture will be committed on the soul for eternity is still torture as it causes pain and inflicts inner scars that sometimes cannot heal. Torture is inflicting a painful action on another for the purpose of information. You can get more bees with Honey.

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I believe David's baby died in its innocence and went to heaven.  But David had another child with Bath-Sheba, Solomon.  Solomon had many wives and according to the Scripture, he did evil in the sight of the Lord.  Nevertheless he still retained his wisdom.  That he gave himself over to pleasures of the flesh is without doubt, but that book he wrote in his old age, Ecclesiastes, is one of sober reflection on one's own mortality and sorrow after the mind of God. And such beautiful words in the last chapter:

 

Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.  Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.  Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity.

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