The Holocaust


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As time moves on, there's more and more people coming forward saying that the Holocaust was some kind of conspiracy, advancing Jewish interests in a wartorn Europe. Now, I don't believe this for a second but can you imagine, as centuries pass, the Holocaust deniers could gain more believers. After all, who wants to believe that mankind could ever have done anything so awful. I find it worrying and hope all the museums of the Holocaust stand forever and remind us of what happened.

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I watched Schindlers List yesterday. There was one element that surprised me, and I thought what are they trying to say by this.   The first scene features gossipy Jewish women in their barracks.  One

As time moves on, there's more and more people coming forward saying that the Holocaust was some kind of conspiracy, advancing Jewish interests in a wartorn Europe. Now, I don't believe this for a sec

"People usually say that 6 million Jews were killed in the concentration camps. However the census in 1933 showed that only half a million Jews lived in Germany, and as I said above Im sure an awful l

First of all let me say I dont even know any Jews, so I have no thoughts about them as a group.  

 

However, when there is a subject (whatever it is) and some governments pass a law making it illegal to even suggest that the subject is not accurate then I have to wonder what they are trying to hide?  Try and think of another single account in history that has laws prohibiting discussing it might not be exactly as happened?  If there were laws about Moon Landing Denial or 911 Denial what would that make you think?  Would that make the official position on what happened seem more likely or less likely?

 

Some facts are clear.  Hitler clearly didnt like Jews, he wrote about this long before he was elected and he thought they caused a lot of problems in society.  He tried to take power, couldnt, tried again, couldnt.  So he realised that the only way to get power was to convince the people of Germany that he was right and do it through political means.  Which is what he did, and how he became Chancellor.

 

Now at this point, had I been a Jew in Germany I would have been out of there!  The man who has been saying for 20 years he hates us, and has been making political speeches about us for the last 10 years is now in power, things will not go well.

 

My understanding is that a lot of these people thought it would all blow over,  they loved Germany and didnt want to leave.  Other things I have read is that many tried to leave later and no other country would take them.

 

So lets say the Germans (one of the most efficient and one of the countries with the best engineering minds) decided they were going to kill the Jews.   Lets not forget they were inventing rockets during this time,  they banned smoking in public places in 1940 as they realised it was bad for health, vivisection was banned in 1933 the first country to do so.  They were bloody advanced!  

 

So are we saying that the best thing they could come up with is dropping some gas pellets into an unsealed shower room from a hole in the roof, which would no doubt have killed the people guarding them?  So this to me seems unlikely.  Im sure a lethal injection would have been much easier, tell em it was a vitamin shot.  Which as most of them were suffering from malnutrition would have been believed.  Imagine how quickly a team of nurses could inject hundreds of people.

 

People usually say that 6 million Jews were killed in the concentration camps.  However the census in 1933 showed that only half a million Jews lived in Germany, and as I said above Im sure an awful lot of them got out of Germany when they could.  So clearly the 6 million number is an exaggeration, though you could argue that some people lied fearing persecution.  But the total population of Germany was 60 million.  Were one in 10 Jews?

 

My feeling is that the core of the story is true, Jews were killed in Nazi Germany, but so were gays, disabled people and gypsies.  But the numbers were exaggerated, and the plan of how they were to be exterminated seems unlikely.  Add to this the laws in some countries preventing discussion and it clearly doesnt all add up.

 

To be honest, I feel this is something that should remain in the past, that we should learn the lessons from but move on.  Though it just shows that conspiracies are not something modern!

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I think its a sensitive subject, and one I dont know much about.  Though Dagscot, I think people are capable of anything.  History is full of wars, slaughter and destruction.  One thing i know though, the winners write the history.  And it should be taken in that context.

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I don't believe the holocaust was fake, but I do believe it has been heavily exaggerated. Like Neo said, there were likely not even 6 million Jews in Europe in total. It just doesn't make sense that that many people were somehow rounded up and put into camps. The Nazi military was not strong enough to accomplish this nor are there enough designated camps to hold even a million Jews.

 

But I do believe that if crazy people come into power, they can accomplish horrible things like this so long as there are no people willing to try and stop them.

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I don't even know why people make fun of/hate Jews. Why? So I don't hate them -- but I'm wary since I know a lot do. 

 

I think the Holocaust happened, but it was exaggerated, just like someone else said. Everything major in history was done for a reason -- and if there's a reason there's a lie somewhere. 

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People usually hate people so that they can feel superior to them. They hate for contrived reasons, which most of the time don't make any sense. People have said they were survivors of this horribe event. I have no reason to think they are lying. Some have numbers on their skin. Did they just want their skin decorated?

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"People usually say that 6 million Jews were killed in the concentration camps. However the census in 1933 showed that only half a million Jews lived in Germany, and as I said above Im sure an awful lot of them got out of Germany when they could."

 

Most of the jews killed came from the nations that Germany conquered, such as Poland, Holland, Czechoslovakia etc etc.  As for the figures, I would guess that a lot were killed in Russia and without transportation to the camps. I would also guess that it wasnt just the Gerna doign the killing either, The average Russian peasant did their fair share of murdering too.I would be inclined to think that 6 mllion coves Gypsies, handicapped, political undesirables too, not just jews.

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I don't have an extensive knowledge on the subject, to be honest, but it does seem to me that it likely could have happened a bit differently than most people believe. Still, it is a shame that some people try to deny it altogether, and while it should be something to acknowledge, perhaps it's something that belongs in our history and little more.

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"People usually say that 6 million Jews were killed in the concentration camps. However the census in 1933 showed that only half a million Jews lived in Germany, and as I said above Im sure an awful lot of them got out of Germany when they could."

 

Most of the jews killed came from the nations that Germany conquered, such as Poland, Holland, Czechoslovakia etc etc.  As for the figures, I would guess that a lot were killed in Russia and without transportation to the camps. I would also guess that it wasnt just the Gerna doign the killing either, The average Russian peasant did their fair share of murdering too.I would be inclined to think that 6 mllion coves Gypsies, handicapped, political undesirables too, not just jews.

 

You are correct, according to censuses at the time there was 3 million Polish Jews, 139 thousand in Holland.  Its hard to find out as some of my searches lead me to racists and Nazi websites, not really places I want to go.

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I also think that many of the people, including Jews, that were killed during this period were killed outside of Germany and that is why the figure is so high. I think there is ample evidence that the Germans under the Nazi party were killing Jews and other undesirables. Many people have family members who remember these events and some of the death camps remain as solid proof of the operation. I don't understand how anyone can doubt that the Holocaust actually occurred.

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I watched Schindlers List yesterday. There was one element that surprised me, and I thought what are they trying to say by this.

 

The first scene features gossipy Jewish women in their barracks.  One tells the others that she has heard of a camp where they sent all the Jews, and they shaved their heads telling them that they needed the hair for Uboats.  Then they told them, to strip and gave them all blocks of soap and to walk into the shower.  Then the woman says gas came out of the shower and killed everyone.

 

The other women scoff, and ask if everyone was killed then how did you hear this story?  Another woman says, no we are too valuable to them for the war effort.

 

An hour later in the film, the women are transferred to Auschwitz, on the way there the train stops and a young German boy makes the slitting throat sign to the women.  They arrive at Auschwitz and have their heads shaven, they are then forced to strip and go into a large shower room.  The door is slammed shut and locked behind them.  At this point they are all sobbing, crying, really upset all thinking they are about to die.  Its a tense moment in the film.   Suddenly the showers turn on, and out comes water and they all have a shower sobbing with relief.

 

So Im thinking, what is the film maker / writer of the book trying to get across here?  That the gas showers were just a story spread by gossip and really never happened?

 

You can see the scene via youtube (it features some in context nudity)

 

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There's too much evidence pointing to the holocaust being real. It's the same thing as the moon landing. If we have a lot of evidence pointing to them both being true and I haven't seen any good arguments or evidence against them both. Until we see good evidence of them being fake, we should believe they're real or try harder to find evidence that they are fake.

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It's difficult for people to believe that human beings who lived less than 100 years ago could be so cruel to their fellow human. A lot is made about their faith, but they were humans first and Jewish second. I still find it hard to believe that such cruel events can possibly be allowed to happen. I find it hard to believe that one ordinary man can convince so many people to hate a whole race of fellow humans. We'll never really know the full story I feel.

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You have to understand, hatred of the Jews wasn't just a Hitler thing. It goes back to the middle ages, possibly farther back. It was a culturally inherited bias that many nations of Europe (and to some extent America, too) shared. I suppose it was luck of the draw which country got the nutjob who would actually try to do something about it, y'know, because normal people don't order the mass slaughter of others.

 

I distinctly remember learning the Holocaust in the tenth grade in High School. I distinctly remember watching a film about paperclips - students gathered six million paperclips and loaded them up in a train car used to transport people to the death camps. But never once, not a single mention was ever given that any of the people killed were anything but Jews. I'm an American, so why exactly do our school systems choose not to teach the actual history?

 

It's being used as a objective lesson about the horrors of humanity. Some people along the way realize some of what we're taught is bunk, but leap from fudged information to complete fiction too quickly to realize how silly they're being. There is simply too much proof that it happened (anyone see those lamps and diaries made from human skin?) to say it didn't, and if you think that I encourage you to go back and look the subject over again.

 

There was a mass wholesale slaughter of Jews, yes. That six million figure doesn't quite make sense, though, especially considering that if the Nazis sent you to a camp they didn't like you and probably didn't care what you were after you got there. The numbers more likely indicate the total number of death camp fatalities (considering there were many survivors, it makes sense) and possibly some field work of the worst kind.

 

Then there's the Russian front which killed plenty people. Oh, and don't forget pre-war Russia starved 10 million people to death while Germany was still starting its engine. The horror was world wide. Now, don't take this wrong as I wouldn't consider myself a German sympethizer, but it makes sense to be able to pin all the blame on a single culprit again, just like World War One.

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A lot of your answers make sense and I very much enjoyed reading them. I tend to agree with the idea that the numbers are exaggerated but, regardless, it was a crime against humanity that needs to be remembered. Thanks for your replies on a delicate subject.

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Was it six millions Jews, or six million people that are thought to have been killed? Hitler also killed gays, gypsies, the mentally handicapped, etc. I don't personally know as much about this subject as I should, but I did meet a concentration camp survivor in middle school. IF this was a conspiracy, then it would mean that those eye-witnesses were lying. And there's certainly an awful lot (well, not anymore). 

 

I'm sure the actual numbers differ greatly across the board, but I don't think there's any doubt that it happened. I have to wonder if certain regions outlaw discussion about it because of shame, and not because it didn't really happen. Either way, you guys have given me a lot to think about (and research).

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First of all let me say I dont even know any Jews, so I have no thoughts about them as a group.  

 

However, when there is a subject (whatever it is) and some governments pass a law making it illegal to even suggest that the subject is not accurate then I have to wonder what they are trying to hide?  Try and think of another single account in history that has laws prohibiting discussing it might not be exactly as happened?  If there were laws about Moon Landing Denial or 911 Denial what would that make you think?  Would that make the official position on what happened seem more likely or less likely?

 

Some facts are clear.  Hitler clearly didnt like Jews, he wrote about this long before he was elected and he thought they caused a lot of problems in society.  He tried to take power, couldnt, tried again, couldnt.  So he realised that the only way to get power was to convince the people of Germany that he was right and do it through political means.  Which is what he did, and how he became Chancellor.

 

Now at this point, had I been a Jew in Germany I would have been out of there!  The man who has been saying for 20 years he hates us, and has been making political speeches about us for the last 10 years is now in power, things will not go well.

 

My understanding is that a lot of these people thought it would all blow over,  they loved Germany and didnt want to leave.  Other things I have read is that many tried to leave later and no other country would take them.

 

So lets say the Germans (one of the most efficient and one of the countries with the best engineering minds) decided they were going to kill the Jews.   Lets not forget they were inventing rockets during this time,  they banned smoking in public places in 1940 as they realised it was bad for health, vivisection was banned in 1933 the first country to do so.  They were bloody advanced!  

 

So are we saying that the best thing they could come up with is dropping some gas pellets into an unsealed shower room from a hole in the roof, which would no doubt have killed the people guarding them?  So this to me seems unlikely.  Im sure a lethal injection would have been much easier, tell em it was a vitamin shot.  Which as most of them were suffering from malnutrition would have been believed.  Imagine how quickly a team of nurses could inject hundreds of people.

 

People usually say that 6 million Jews were killed in the concentration camps.  However the census in 1933 showed that only half a million Jews lived in Germany, and as I said above Im sure an awful lot of them got out of Germany when they could.  So clearly the 6 million number is an exaggeration, though you could argue that some people lied fearing persecution.  But the total population of Germany was 60 million.  Were one in 10 Jews?

 

My feeling is that the core of the story is true, Jews were killed in Nazi Germany, but so were gays, disabled people and gypsies.  But the numbers were exaggerated, and the plan of how they were to be exterminated seems unlikely.  Add to this the laws in some countries preventing discussion and it clearly doesnt all add up.

 

To be honest, I feel this is something that should remain in the past, that we should learn the lessons from but move on.  Though it just shows that conspiracies are not something modern!

 

You make a good point, but ask yourself, how many people are leaving the US and other countries where tyranny is apparently kicking in. The fact is that the population is conditioned to accept their fate. They cheer on the tyrants as they blatantly take away their freedom piece by piece, until one day, it's too late. 

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I believe that Jews were targeted, with the main reason being the Zionists wanted to force them to move to Israel. I believe some Jews were executed, and some died in concentration camps. If 6 million died, that would have effectively wiped out a very large percentage of the entire Jewish population. I think the numbers are inflated, and the reason being is that they use the Holocaust for many justifications, mostly to justify what they are doing to Palestinians. A more accurate number might be 1.5 million, as the plaque commissioned by the Red Cross after WWII says. It's still awful, but the Zionists had to create terror to achieve the desired effect. 

The Holocaust did not occur the way the story says. The photos of the dead show a lot more than just dead Jewish people, as a lot of non Jews occupied space in the camps too. Many different ethnic groups were affected. The fact that it's a crime to question the Holocaust speaks volumes about the validity of the "official story".

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The Holocaust was very real however along with most major events were handed down bits and pieces of information and not the whole scope of events. I think it's much more to this story that the public doesn't know about. I mean look at how we get tragic events in history handed to us. It's watered down or sugar coated instead of the harsh truth. 

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There are still some people alive that survived it.. Many officers that were kept prisioners in camps like Aushwitz and so are still alive to tell the story.
There was a group that escaped from a camp, they digged a massive tunnel with small karts and everything, NatGeo or Discovery made a documentary about them, and they searched for that hole.
Obviously they found the tunnel, and even spoke to a man that was part of the construction, there is no deny that the holocaust happened..

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I believe very much that it is true.  Regardless of the numbers of people who were destroyed, mutilated by "medical" experiments, etc. it was definitely a time of hell for any people that Hitler and his thugs did not like.

 

When I was a young boy I had a friend who was Jewish.  We were both about 10 or 11 and he actually had a camp tattoo on his forearm. He did not talk much about living in Europe (All I can think of now is that the boy and his family had managed to survive).  One thing I will never forget is that one day when we were playing he just said out of the blue, "Life is a situation comedy...and the situation is that it is not funny." That is pretty heavy for a young child to say.

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Like I said, he never talked much so I suppose he heard most everything from his parents.  I never gave it a second thought but the time line does not seen correct for the tattoo but I did see it.  Perhaps he was slated for "experimentation".  Also it men were separated from their wives how was he conceived?

 

But everything being said what I said was true.  I may be getting old and losing some details but what I remember I remember.

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