Dreek Lass

Who Created God?

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No one is going to convince me that God isn't real.  Like others here I have felt the presence of God in my life.  I have felt God's influence.  Now that God I am referring to isn't a Christian God, but the God of all religions that believe in a higher power at work.  Regardless of what ever name that religion may give to this being.  It is still the same God that others believe in.  As for the origin of God, that is something that even astounds me, I do know that in some way God is on a different mystic plain then we are.  Perhaps in this place the origin of God can be explained.  

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Well obviously you're entitled to your belief, but don't think any belief that isn't subject to change is something good. As for god being the same for all religions, that's just laughable. Religions have radically different concept of God that it's hardly compatible with each other. Dunno what "mystic plane" is even supposed to mean, really.

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Anyone who claims to know the truth about the existence/non-existence of a higher power is delusional.  It's not possible to know definitively as our current tools are yet rudimentary toward that goal.

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Wow, there are some amazing point being made in this thread. I think that anybody who believes that God is some deity who sits on a throne all day, has been terribly brainwashed with that imagery. I am pretty certain that God is not sitting on a throne all day, watching his version of The Sims interact. What sense is there in that. I think that the God is omnipresent notion stems from the fact that energy is around us and in us at all times, not matter where you are in the world. Behind energy, is prana, or God source, or Chi, if you will, which would be the presence of God, and you can call upon it at any time because it is always there. That's just my two cents on the matter.

 

Science says that energy cannot be created or destroyed. Everything is energy, which means that everything had to have been here in a different form all along. We are constantly changing form and evolving. We are energy and we will never be destroyed.

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Wow, there are some amazing point being made in this thread. I think that anybody who believes that God is some deity who sits on a throne all day, has been terribly brainwashed with that imagery. I am pretty certain that God is not sitting on a throne all day, watching his version of The Sims interact. What sense is there in that. I think that the God is omnipresent notion stems from the fact that energy is around us and in us at all times, not matter where you are in the world. Behind energy, is prana, or God source, or Chi, if you will, which would be the presence of God, and you can call upon it at any time because it is always there. That's just my two cents on the matter.

 

Science says that energy cannot be created or destroyed. Everything is energy, which means that everything had to have been here in a different form all along. We are constantly changing form and evolving. We are energy and we will never be destroyed.

 

I do believe in a higher power that created life, I just don't agree with the view that churches try to force us to believe. Perhaps it's just because it's comfortable to think that we don't exist simply for some random one in a million accident. We like to think there's some purpose for our existence, thus the image of God. There's a neverending plethora of different concepts regarding God, and all I can hope for is that we each are allowed to follow our idea of God, even if that idea is that he doesn't exist.

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I do believe in a higher power that created life, I just don't agree with the view that churches try to force us to believe. Perhaps it's just because it's comfortable to think that we don't exist simply for some random one in a million accident. We like to think there's some purpose for our existence, thus the image of God. There's a neverending plethora of different concepts regarding God, and all I can hope for is that we each are allowed to follow our idea of God, even if that idea is that he doesn't exist.

If you take a look around at life and nature and all of the perfection around us - even just the way that our bodies work, I don't think that it's very smart to suggest that there is no higher power. Life is too well-thought-out and methodical for there not to be a higher power of some sort. Everything that the body does is designed to be that way, like pregnancy or the way that caccines work. Then there is natre and it many miracles. They specifically benefit human life, and that is not by accident. There has to be a higher power, and anybody who thinks otherwise is bemusing to me. BUT, having said that I don't think that the image that the church puts out of God is correct. I think that people like to think that God looks like humans, purely because they do not know any other way to imagine him. It's strange to me that people will even give God a gender. To me, God in genderless, and lacks race, and isn't even in human form.

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Human as a dominant organism on earth become habitual of thinking in dominance. They declared themselves as super creature. Surely, men have many characteristics and features distinctive of them but there are characters that men share with other creatures. Men used similarities and differences in all observable things and based on them they have classified all things they know or have observed. This is the main methodology almost in all fields of knowledge. This is particularly true for science. These common characteristics reveal al lot about human but there is controversy about thinking strategies. As men declared themselves as super-creature so they don’t allow themselves to be compared with creatures and organism that are less evolved than them. Surely! This behavior is expected from a dominant creature but besides men is rational beings and they love learning, so they are always in quest for new understanding.

We can disagree with evolutionists but it is fact that evolution provides a thinking methodology especially through comparative studies. Spiritual ones believe men are centre of universe and what exist in universe, exist in men. Even thinking in this spiritualist line, again evolution is a helpful tool in understanding how all in nature concentrate in men and how men are super creature.

Social men and Social ants: Certainly human is super creature but again there are examples in nature make us surprise when we compare with human. One such strange example of nature is social structure of ants. Men have the most advanced and complex social structures with specialized structures for human health. We have health ministries, Medical colleges, universities and research organizations in health, well established multinational companies that research and massively produce health products for global distributions, Hospitals, clinics and conventional and unconventional health facilities. We educate ourselves and our children in schools, colleges and universities through formal educations and citizens through informal educations using every media to improve human health but again health is the most expensive and serious social problems even in most advanced countries like USA, where presidential candidates make health insurance as the basis of their election campaigns.

The most basic thing in health education is balanced diet or healthy nutrition. We know well that balanced diet of is categorized according to mass to height ratio. Surely, the balanced diet of an infant is not balanced for a hard working adult. Similarly, the nutrition that a growing boy requires is different from an office holder. In most human families the family members eat together and eat what will be prepared by home maid. It may be a mother, a sister, a wife, a cook or any individual linked with family. Children, parents of any age and gender and profession eat the same diet. Those with jobs that require less physical and mental works get obese and those growing children and hard workers get under nourished. The diet of family also influenced by likes and dislikes and get imbalanced.

Contrary to us, ants have well developed and more evolved nutrition system. They have nurses that prepare special foods according to the requirements and needs of every social group. Queen, larvae, workers and knights all have different food requirements and hence nurses prepare balanced diets suited every group separately. Knowing this fact make us feel ashamed that despite of our advances in medical sciences, educating ourselves through formal and informal education again our diets haven’t been specialized or we haven’t learnt to know our dietary needs. All that guide us in our diet is likes, dislikes, cultures, traditions and commercials.

Chimps have more advanced genes than us: By the spirit of a super creature, men declared themselves more evolved than all organisms. Anthropologists, biologists and paleontologists helped making lineages of human evolution. It is accepted that men and similar organisms like chimps and gorillas are diverged from a common ancestor, “sahelanthropus” some seven to six million years ago (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2709… It is thought bipedal-ism  tool making, language, evolved cognitive functions like advanced learning, speech, creativity and self expression etc are the result of positive natural selections and men have evolved more positively than their close relatives like chimps and gorillas. But comparative studies on shared genes of human and chimps by analyzing strings of DNA from nearly 14,000 protein-coding genes by a group of scientists (http://www.pnas.org/content/104/18/7489.… showed that more genes evolved in chimps that were useful and beneficial than human.

Microbes evolve more rapidly than human: Though microbes are very small to be seen by naked eyes but they have a lot to do with human lives. Actually they compete with human in certain areas. Human discovered penicillin

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Evolution created god. Before I go into my explanation, a little transperancy is in order. I do subscribe, though not with unbending conviction, to the notions brought about by the burgeoning field of evolutionary psychology. I fully acknowledge it is a young field and, religious nonsensical arguments asside, it's conclusions are far from being open and shut cases. That said, I'll get into it.

Intelligence is a consequence of the deterministic situations we typically refer to as emergent order. Emergent order is the scenario that occurs when you have a universe governed by the properties of it's own existence. That is to say, the four forces of physics, electro-megnetism, the strong nuclear force and the weak force, and gravitation, are a consequence of the size shape and general nature of the universe. These four forces put pressures on matter and energy that have resulted in the strange self arrangement, the spontaneous ordering of universal phenomena, which we call emergent order.

Consciousness, and further more, sapience, is a direct result of this phenomenon. As emergent order, again the result of the four forces interacting with matter and energy, influence chemistry, new forms of chemistry began to arise under certain specific environmental situations. The most primitive form of life, the ancestral bacterium, is in essence, more chemistry than "life" as we think of it in a philosophical form. It is a complex case of unresolved chemistry, and the evolution of life is the path that reaction has taken in order to resolve. (Still under way, thankfully)

As this chemical reaction lead to intelligence, self awareness and sapience in human ancestry, intellectual adaptations came into play. It wasn't enough that physical forms be congruent with survival, because now psychology played a role in the survival of an organism. In this way, we have the foundations for understanding that human psychology and psychological phenomena is a result of evolution!

Religion has so far proven to be an especially useful evolutionary adaptation! It reconciled a great many problems in having an animal being so innately social. No other animal on earth is social to the extent we are. It's central to our survival. We use coordinated efforts to compensate for the fact that we don't see exceptionally well, nor are we very fast, and our sense of smell is a joke. Thus, with intellect being the foundation on which social behavior arrises, we can say that social behavior too are evolutionary advantages (or not, in the cases of social behaviors which bring an end to their respective societies.)

Religion gave us a means to unify a community that otherwise may have splintered and brought about greater stability. In this way, it solidified the systems which gave rise to agriculture, industry, food distribution, care for weak elements in society etc. It's also very telling that virtually all religions have a strange preoccupation with reproduction. In the West, Christianity is the predominant religion and it is a great example of this. We see that there are almost always rules in religions that accentuate the idea of sex as a means to reproduce. (There are also usually rules which villainize the concept of sex for fun. It is for this reason that older forms of religion which were permissive, if not outwardly fascilitating recreational sex have vanished. They were evolutionary dead ends! The rise of abrahamic monotheism can be directly linked to it's preoccupation with sexual themes.) These religions regulate reproductive behavior in a way that increases the likelihood of conception and the social circumstances that are beneficial to the rearing of young to reproductive age themselves. This is virtually the definition of evolution! Evolution's only "goal" is to bring an organism to reproductive age and successfully reproduce. This is what a chemical reaction does! It goes through it's routines according to physics until the resources to do so are expended and equilibrium is reached.

God/religion is a natural expression of evolutionary behaviors, a system brought about as a result of emergent order.

 

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The Roman Catholic Church created the "vengeful", "jealous", "punishing" God. I don't understand people that believe this 2000-year-old book comes from Divine Intelligence. The biblical God condones: raping women, killing children, stoning and murdering homosexuals. Joshua 10:11 has God throwing hail at people, "the LORD hurled large hailstones down on them, and more of them died from the hail than were killed by the swords of the Israelites. Numbers 22:28 has a donkey TALKING. What the hell is wrong with you people? There is a plethora of MAN-MADE garbage in the bible, it's downright absurd. For people to think this comes from an entity, outside of ourselves, leaves me SPEECHLESS.

The King James Bible, first published in 1611, is an anthology of ancient literature containing sublime wisdom, barbaric histories, and tribal war songs, written during a time when the majority of society was illiterate. Although it is replete with metaphors, anthropomorphism, and symbolism, 2 billion Christians across the globe, view it as the literal word and counsel of God. Most fundamentalist believers, by and large, know nothing of the history of the Bible, or how it was edited.

The Bible was not hand delivered by an angel from heaven. It is an elegantly inaccurate translation of Hebrew and Greek documents composed between 900 B.C. and A.D. 120. None of the 40 plus authors of the bible, when writing their separate documents, were writing it to be a part of a BIBLE. The Holy Bible (Holy .. give me a break) was collated by a council of about 300 Christian bishops that gathered in Nicaea in Bithynia (present-day Turkey), in AD 325.

 

Part of the agenda of the Council of Nicaea was to deal with the schism in the church brought on by Arianism. Another issue addressed was to discuss the Nicene Creed and its relevance, which stated that God the Father, and God the Son were one, and bound by eternity. This malevolent group of men also met to determine the date on which Easter would be celebrated, and this is where the Jesus story was officially embedded into history. Before this meeting of Bishops, along with Emperor Constantine I, no historian before, during, or after, the purported life and death of Jesus, ever recorded such a man being alive. The council could have easily chosen Horus, Attis, Mithra, Dionysus, and many others, as the "Savior" of mankind. The Jesus figure was selected because he was the last caricature in a LONG LINE of mythical messiahs, with the same damn story! GEESH .. WTF UP!

 

Nicaea-sistine.jpg

 

Take a GOOD look at the image above. Of course this is an animated re-creation, but this is how they dressed, and pretty much how they looked, except many probably had somewhat of a darker hue. Think about it, you have hundreds of thousands of Catholic priest, from 325 - 2013, raping young children, do you actually think these 300 or so men were all legit? Do you actually think these men were hand-picked by a Divine, Loving, Creator to compile a "Holy Book?" .. SMH

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Humans have always wondered how they got here, so it's natural that the idea of God still exists. In the beginning, we wondered how we got here, how the sun always came back in the morning and the moon came back at night. But, I don't think we need God anymore. I mean, we KNOW everything now, so we can't say God did it. We know why people die, we know why some people enjoy killing people. Not because they're working for a devil, or Satan, but because there's a chemical imbalance in their head. God has made people commit more crime than any God has. It's unbelievable. But we have no use for him now. But because some people are more focused on the after life than their own current life, they still pay churches a majority of their income that could go to actually helping people instead of building mega churches. I think there needs to be a revamp in the church, something has to change. The church has become way too hypocritical.

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The Bible was written to be taken literally.

Which parts? All of it? So, you mean to tell me that when the Countil of Nicia was putting together the canon, they were somehow divinely inspired to put in the correct books and leave out the apocrapha? If that's the case, then was was there so much debate as to whether they should even include Revelation as opposed to the Apocalypse of Peter?

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Man created God, especilly the one described in any holy book. Furthermore, why would anyone lend credibility to a book that condones killing children; condones rape; condones stoning and murdering homosexuals; condones war, and speaks of women as property and second class citizens.

 

The Bible is not a work of literature that can stand up in any logical debate. If the Bible were on trial, under cross examination, and after critical, objective analysis, it would be found guilty of myriad crimes against humanity and sentenced to DEATH!

 

“I don't know if God exists, but it would be better for His reputation if He didn't.” ~ Jules Renard

“It is easy to understand God as long as you don't try to explain him.” ~ Joseph Joubert

"I live on the other side of Copernicus and Galileo; I can no longer conceive of God as sort of above the sky, looking down and keeping record books." ~ John Shelby Spong

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God is the omnipotent, omnipresent source of all life energy. The ALL that is Nothing, the NOTHING that is All. God created man in His image, but somehow, since the conspiracy to form a World Government came into being, Man has created God in his own image, as a plot to divert the world's consciousness away from the evolving Soul and true spiritual growth, to living in fear and being controlled by the organized religious masses.

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From what I've read, God created himself by speaking a word. In reality, i don't believe in any deities, but i do read a lot. The universe, matter, and the laws of nature simultaneously came into existence 14.3 billion years ago. I assure you. 

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The Bible was written to be taken literally.

 

 

Not all of it, no. The Bible is a compilation of books from many authors. Some of the tales in there are supposed to be parables. Some are supposed to be considered historical (from a skewed perspective, of course). It's like having a book of stories that contains both fiction and non-fiction.

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There are things in scripture that "primitive" man could not know about and by that I do not believe man could have created the Judeo-Christian God. It is evident through some of the revelation in the text, fulfilled prophecy, accuracy of general salvation message over time, distance and different authors, etc.

 

The original question falls in the logical fallacy of a category mistake. God by definition is a supernatural entity in nearly every concept I have seen both in Judeo-Christian theology and outside it. Thus the category mistake is assuming an infinite being needs to be created. It is categorizing an infinte being by finite principles. Thus the  whole questions misunderstand the principles of a God who is the uncaused first cause.

 

Also this question runs into the problem of if I say a Bigger God created God, then you need a Bigger Bigger God to create the Bigger God who created God, then you need a Bigger Bigger Bigger God to create the Bigger Bigger God who created the Bigger God who created God, then you need a Bigger X4 God to create the BiggerX3 God who created the Bigger Bigger God who created the Bigger God who created God, then you need the....see how this goes on and on and on? It becomes an infinite regression of causes which is a logical impossibility. You never arrive at the main cause of God or the universe for that matter.

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The thread is, "Who Created God?"

 

Who created the God that most people have heard or read about in the scriptures?

 

If you don't know about that particular God, I'll share some of HIS characteristics (and if you're a Christian, you believe the Bible to be the word of God).

The first bullet, all the scriptures that are listed in the Old Testament, talk about FEARING GOD:

  • Lev. 25:17; Deut. 6:2, 6:13, 10:12, 10:20, 31:12-13; Joshua 4:24; 1 Sam. 12:14; 2 Kings 17:39; Job 28:28; Psalms 19:9, 25:14, 33:8, 33:18, 34:9, 96:4, 103:11, 103:17, 111:10, 112:1, 115:13, 128:1, 147:11; Proverbs 1:7, 22:4, 24:21; Ecc. 5:7, 12:13; Jer. 5:22
     
  • Psalm 30:5, For his anger is but for a moment, and his favor is for a lifetime.
     
  • Isaiah 45:7, I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and CREATE EVIL: I the LORD do all these things.
     
  • 2 Kings 2:23-24 : 42 children are killed for calling a prophet "baldy", by two she-bears.
     
  • 1 Samuel 6:19 : And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the Lord, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the Lord had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.
     
  • Numbers 16:16-49 : Death to all those who complain (14,700 deid in the plague).
     
  • 2 Samuel 6:6-9, And when they came to Nachon's threshingfloor, Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it. And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God. And David was displeased, because the Lord had made a breach upon Uzzah: and he called the name of the place Perezuzzah to this day. And David was afraid of the Lord that day, and said, How shall the ark of the Lord come to me?

This is the God the question is asking about. Those of you who may be offended, don't get mad at me, just answer the question. If you have no answer for the question, then just say you don't know instead of using words and phrases completely out of context.

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God was never created, He creates everything and we don't have a reason to ask who created Him. :)
 

There are things in scripture that "primitive" man could not know about and by that I do not believe man could have created the Judeo-Christian God. It is evident through some of the revelation in the text, fulfilled prophecy, accuracy of general salvation message over time, distance and different authors, etc.

The original question falls in the logical fallacy of a category mistake. God by definition is a supernatural entity in nearly every concept I have seen both in Judeo-Christian theology and outside it. Thus the category mistake is assuming an infinite being needs to be created. It is categorizing an infinte being by finite principles. Thus the whole questions misunderstand the principles of a God who is the uncaused first cause.

Also this question runs into the problem of if I say a Bigger God created God, then you need a Bigger Bigger God to create the Bigger God who created God, then you need a Bigger Bigger Bigger God to create the Bigger Bigger God who created the Bigger God who created God, then you need a Bigger X4 God to create the BiggerX3 God who created the Bigger Bigger God who created the Bigger God who created God, then you need the....see how this goes on and on and on? It becomes an infinite regression of causes which is a logical impossibility. You never arrive at the main cause of God or the universe for that matter.

 

 

You just introduced something new here brother Roy, primitive man, did the primitive man ever exist? I don't think there was anything like primitive man.

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There are things in scripture that "primitive" man could not know about and by that I do not believe man could have created the Judeo-Christian God. It is evident through some of the revelation in the text, fulfilled prophecy, accuracy of general salvation message over time, distance and different authors, etc.

 

But equally there are lots of things that the prove the bible was written by man.  Flat earth?   Sun rotating around the earth?  Tell me something (anything) that was in the bible that was before it time, a revelation if you will.

 

Lets not forget all the people coming from one man and one woman, we know today that is impossible through our knowledge of DNA and inbreeding.  This also makes the arc story pure fiction.  It would also lead one to believe that god was in favour of incest. 

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I fully and truly believe that God is a man made construct. I mean, it smacks entirely of an attempt of primitive people trying to find a meaning and a reason why the world around them was so unfair and seemed built from the ground up to kill them.

 

There's an idea in pagan gods especially that they were all drunken incestuous D-bags who pretty much had capricious disdain for the people that worshiped them. The people knew that life sucked and was unfair.

 

I could never really get down with the idea that a gigantic universal being that loves us is in control of everything. Evil is man made. Nature is harsh and unfair. None of that though shows any indication of being designed.

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My question is, what is God an excuse for? I'm seeing a lot of people say that gods were created by us to explain the unexplainable, but I'm trying to find the incident that we made up God for. Too often He's just thrown in with all the other "gods."  From my viewpoint, what He did was deliver salvation. I could care less how the world came about or what lead us to where we are, but I'm free from sin because of God. There are hundreds of plausible creation/evolution/big bang theories out there. But I know I've been saved and the truth of that has lead me to my faith in the rest of God's Word. I'm actually really curious about why the Christian God was the one to out, and not some other Norse god. He could of taken any form.. I guess what He is mixes the best with our culture. Also, let's be respectful.. too often these talks get turned into name-calling and pointless blithering. This forum was made to talk about beliefs, so immediately shutting someone down for their beliefs (because you believe your own beliefs) is senseless. Well then?

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This forum was made to talk about beliefs, so immediately shutting someone down for their beliefs (because you believe your own beliefs) is senseless. Well then?

 

This forum was actually made to talk about conspiracies in religion.  :)

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From my viewpoint, what He did was deliver salvation. But I know I've been saved and the truth of that has lead me to my faith in the rest of God's Word.  Also, let's be respectful.. too often these talks get turned into name-calling and pointless blithering.

In your words, "let's be respectful", so you won't go off when I ask you to explain, in layman's terms, what the heck you mean by, "what he did was deliver salvation" ?? And what are you "saved" from .. Most will say they have been saved from eternal damnation, but specifically, I'd like you to break down your "deliver salvation" statement. Please don't quote scriptures, explain this in your own words.

 

If another Christian wants to answer for "the_doctor", feel free to do so, without attacking me. I'm curious to get an explanation IN YOUR OWN WORDS.

 

Here's a caveat to prevent doublespeak. Salvation is defined as "being saved or protected from harm." Therefore, if the Christian God, "delivers salvation" to HIS adherents (believers), then TRUE Christians should not be harmed?? And we know that's not true.

 

So what's up? What's the dillio?

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God was created by man in a primitive attempt to understand that which he does know or understand. He was made to give responsibility and to justify acting in a certain way, as well as remove uncertainty about existance.

As of now, God is a powergrab. There are so many ways of interpreting God that he has become an interpretation in and of himself. He is our way to justify ourselves.

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