Who is the true religion.


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The truest of religions is simply Open System Numerical Math.    You can't get any better religion than that.      Ribbit 

I think the only true religion is my own. Gnostic Christianity. I believe this as it is the only one I know that is flexible enough in it's theology to accomidate all believers in all the Gods. Here i

There have always been enlightened ones. God is an ideal and Freud and Jung have named the process of trying to create that ideal in ourselves as our Father Complex. It is our instincts pushing us to

Universal truth #1

 

If a God exists (which the evidence strongly suggests that one does)

 

1. Making a snake talk and allowing a man to walk on water would be child's play.  This is internally consistent and plausible .

 

2. Just because you don't like the answer does not make it not true.

 

Regards,

P

Still waiting for your evidence. Where is it?

You might want to look up the definition of the word first.

Regards

DL

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Actually that's what Muslims believe, not Christians or Catholics or Jews. It's an Islamic thing not to have tolerance for other religions and not to tolerate those who don't believe in Alah.

 

I'm not racist but I watch the news. radical muslims took pickaxes to a Bhudist temple recently while saying that anything not for Alah must be against him and that is not allowed. Tolerance, it's a virtue.

Islam does not teach intolerance, it teaches tolerance instead, the exact opposite of what you just said but you are forming an opinion based on a few idiots that claim to be Muslim but are not, just like Christians that will shove their shit down your throats in the supposed name of Christ. Neither are practicing what was taught.  ;)

 

Ribbit  :)

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The trouble with "Extremism" is that whatever the numbers actually  involved , it has  a disproportionate effect  in number terms on the majority . And this ratio could be in the region of around 5% versus 95% .

This gets even worse when a specific type of "extremism" hides underneath a label or description of something else which is significantly less extremist -- or even completely non extremist .

Thus is todays "islam ' position .

Clearly the "Extremism" must be surgically removed . 

We are not talking about " a few idiots " , Toad . But we are talking  about people who are effectively diseased and unacceptable .

And you cannot talk about Christian zealots in the same breath , because I am not aware they practise inhumanity as a way of trying to change or subdue others .

I suggest that the best thing that could have happened has already done so . 

The outcasts have defined themselves ---  ISIL . Now we know precisely what to do , how and where .

 

 

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The trouble with "Extremism" is that whatever the numbers actually  involved , it has  a disproportionate effect  in number terms on the majority . And this ratio could be in the region of around 5% versus 95% .

This gets even worse when a specific type of "extremism" hides underneath a label or description of something else which is significantly less extremist -- or even completely non extremist .

Thus is todays "islam ' position .

Clearly the "Extremism" must be surgically removed . 

We are not talking about " a few idiots " , Toad . But we are talking  about people who are effectively diseased and unacceptable .

And you cannot talk about Christian zealots in the same breath , because I am not aware they practise inhumanity as a way of trying to change or subdue others .

I suggest that the best thing that could have happened has already done so . 

The outcasts have defined themselves ---  ISIL . Now we know precisely what to do , how and where .

 

 

I find it pHunny that on one hand, you will say the more control exerted, the more chaos will abound, yet you also say the Open System Law of Order is bullshit?

 

10fcne8.jpg

 

Ribbit  :P

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I think the only true religion is my own. Gnostic Christianity.

I believe this as it is the only one I know that is flexible enough in it's theology to accomidate all believers in all the Gods.

Here is a nutshell view of how it can absorb all beliefs due to it being a method of seeking God as advised by Jesus more than trying to sell someone on a particular view of God. It encourages one's own view but in a Gnostic Christian way.

 

Gnostic Christianity is a teaching system from Jesus but not the one the church ever dares to teach. It frees us from religion and that is of course not what religions want. They never want the student to graduate as they might lose revenue and people.

 

Here is a bit of history as well as a nutshell version of how that freedom is gained.

 

Gnostic Christians are perpetual seekers after God. God here I define as the best laws and rules to live life with.

 

We believe that those laws and rules, as Jesus said, are found in our minds/hearts. I use the following to try to illustrate this notion. A bit of history and then a mindset and method to do what I promote.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D

 

The thinking shown below is the Gnostic Christian’s goal as taught by Jesus but know that any belief can be internalized to activate your higher mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

              

This method and mind set is how you become I am and brethren to Jesus, in the esoteric sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

 

When you can name your God, I am, and mean yourself, you will begin to know the only God you will ever find. Becoming a God is to become more fully human and a brethren to Jesus.

 

Regards

DL

 

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You are right . 

People do tend to laugh at things they do not understand .

People who understand the situation are the first to laugh and the second to laugh are always the ones that don't get it, like you just proved nicely.

 

You didn't laugh at your own words when you posted them but then you accuse me of laughing out of ignorance but it is you that is ignorant and you have proven it repeatedly because every time your ignorance is drawn into question, you ALWAYS EVADE the QUESTION presented and that's what's known as the MARK OF THE FOOL.

 

The fool will never back up their opinion, they will go into denial instead.

 

I clearly challenged you with the Law of Order but you did not mention that at all, you AVOIDED THE CHALLENGE COMPLETELY.

 

I hope you enjoy the hell that's going to be manifesting itself throughout your life.  :D

 

Your subconscious will take care of you for me.  :P

 

Ribbit  :P

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The persecution of people for any reason whatsoever is dangerous. I am Prejudiced - to be sure. My Prejudice is against those who will attack and diminish others but who knows how much I am infected by being in a society where there is so much prejudice in more ways than I allow myself to consider? But it is clear to me that I am not as ignorant as these people, thank dog!

Quote:
This therapy seems like a non-violent proactive way at trying to correct sin.

Conversion therapy does not correct sin because being gay is not a sin. It is a condition in which a person is sexually attracted to others of the same sex. It is only engaging in same sex acts that is sinful and any therapy that removes the temptation of commit these sins is helpful, but if someone has engaged in gay sex before the therapy his guilt is not removed. He must acknowledge his sin and believe in Christ is he wants to be forgiven. A gay person's real need is not to be made straight but to have his sins forgiven. This article will explain it better than I can:



http://christiananswers.net/q-cross/...gaychange.html

 

I hope Gnostic Bishop does not avoid me here - as he has at VC and probably other places before I get banned or leave. I do like a lot of what he says though I take Gnosis far further back in history to wisdom beyond mere Kabbalah and other cabals.

Edited by Robert Baird
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Yes, I always wondered why in the weeks I was at VC that you did not chime in while I debated Gnostic Romanism with the Artful Revealer.

So how far back do you take the Gnostic approach? Are they those who built the Great Pyramid of Iesa? I can show the same sacerdotal language of Hebrew supports that as well as what the Septuagint says about 'arch-tectons'.

The enlightened ones go back before Ba'albek and I think to the DNN who founded all Mediterranean cultures. See Dolni Vestonici and the D'ainu for 200,000 more years. They were all over the world in places like Hueyatlaco, Tiwanaku, and Flores Island.

DNA is helping my history every week - new proof.

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Yes, I always wondered why in the weeks I was at VC that you did not chime in while I debated Gnostic Romanism with the Artful Revealer.

So how far back do you take the Gnostic approach? Are they those who built the Great Pyramid of Iesa? I can show the same sacerdotal language of Hebrew supports that as well as what the Septuagint says about 'arch-tectons'.

The enlightened ones go back before Ba'albek and I think to the DNN who founded all Mediterranean cultures. See Dolni Vestonici and the D'ainu for 200,000 more years. They were all over the world in places like Hueyatlaco, Tiwanaku, and Flores Island.

DNA is helping my history every week - new proof.

There have always been enlightened ones.

God is an ideal and Freud and Jung have named the process of trying to create that ideal in ourselves as our Father Complex. It is our instincts pushing us to be the fittest of our species. Wanting to be the greatest or an Alpha male or female is normal.

 

Regards

DL

 

 

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Yes, you are correct in that but how far back do we have proof of civilized humans on Earth. Eliade says it starts with pre-shamans and I agree but I think we had art and spiritual integrations of a high order in some circles around 2 million years ago. and proof of this over 500,000 years ago - now.

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Yes, you are correct in that but how far back do we have proof of civilized humans on Earth. Eliade says it starts with pre-shamans and I agree but I think we had art and spiritual integrations of a high order in some circles around 2 million years ago. and proof of this over 500,000 years ago - now.

Venus of Willendorf  is dated at 25,000 years ago.

What have you got that is dated at 500,000 years ago that indicates art and spiritual integrations?

 

Regards

DL

 

 

 

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Last year archaeology found art in Indonesia from 524,000 years ago.

 

Before that it was the Berekhat Ram figurine of 350,000 years ago which looks a lot like Dolni Vestonici ceramics from a time when metallurgy took off - 27,000 BCE. The Berekhat Ram figurine was not accepted as art by academics who need to prove the Bible narrative etc.

Joseph Campbell said civilization of 462,000 years. He was working off the Puranas for most of it. Flores Island brought 825,000 year old technology and basic geometry due to travel across the horizon on watercraft. As Bucky said this would also mean, trigonometry and carpentry but he died before that evidence came forward.

That is also where the Hobbit was later found. These dwarves might well include Horus and Hatshepsut was most interested in such things dwarves can do - long story. David Pratt (If I recall) goes back 2 million years and I certainly support at least half of that.

For the spiritual I go with the Sidhes and DNN back to organized science possibly including inter-breeding humans like the recently discovered Denisovan Man from near the D'Ainu homeland. Churchward had many sources leading there for 200,000 years. Professor Heischelheim was a prof who told my assistant he was teaching - to quit school if he wanted to contribute to actual historical research. He said that because he was raked over the coals by fellow academics for tracing all technology to this same Altaic region.

My first book was very dense with a lot of worldwide cultures to cover. It was titled Diverse Druids and most of the links require some searching to get into. I think it is available for free in some places - I have never gotten a penny from it, the publisher do not always pay.

This is a recent review of the book. I thank him for the five stars but it is not well written and as he says it is hard to track down the sources - because I used a lot of links on the web.
 

 
5.0 out of 5 stars
A new look at history
ByQuentin R. Stewart, Jr.on February 27, 2014

Format: Kindle Edition

Diverse Druids is a look at a period of time that seems to have been hidden for years by those who want to control the way that we look at the past. According to Baird the movers and shakers of the past have a tie in with the Kelts (Celts) and Druids of the past. They were the travelers, traders and explorers who opened the routes to the America’s long before the European “discovery” of the so-called New World. Their accomplishments have been hidden by those who became greedy for power and the wealth that the Druids led them to in their explorations.

Baird in his writing ties all of the unexplained monuments found around the world to the Druids and their travels. Were they the Mound Builders of early North America? Were they on Easter Island? Did they influence the Aztecs? Are the Druids the source of the idea of Brotherhood of all people? It is up to each individual reader to decide for themselves and to trace down the sources that Baird uses to prove his points.

A very interesting read that might make you question what the history books have in them.

I wish I had been aware of this site when I wrote Diverse Druids.

http://www.carboneria.it/druidorder.htm

Perhaps I should not be harsh on them because they emphasize Britain and have not done the research to take it back a lot further. They get a few things as correct as any do, and are worth a read.

"After Hu Gadarn, Aed Mawr is said to have set up The Druid Order about 1,000 B.C., with three Archdruidic sees and thirty-one other centres of learning. Classical tradition, however unreliable, agrees with this in speaking of the reception of the founder-philosopher of Greece, Pythagoras, into The Druid Order in Marseilles in about 529 B. C.

It has also a legend, already old to Herodotus, who disbelieved it, {My reading of Hecateus sees him as confirming the great wisdom, language knowledge and other arts demonstrated by Abaris.} that visiting Pythagoras came one Abaris, from the land of the Hyperboreans he being a priest of Apollo, speaking perfect Greek and “fit for the reception of wisdom.”

Passing over these more doubtful figures which approximate to myth, more sober traditions and records agree in attributing to the Druids an elaborate and lengthy wisdom teaching with several grades, and an influence over princes and Celtic tribal peoples alike.

“The Druids,” says Ceasar (Gallic Wars, Bk. 6 {-written by his propagandist Hirtius but academics still don't know or will not say} ) “preside in matters of religion, have the care of sacrifice and interpret the will of the Gods. They have the direction and education of youth… In almost all controversies… the decision is left to them… The Druids never go to war, are exempted from taxes and military service.”

The young “are taught to repeat a great number of verses by heart and often spend twenty years upon this institution… They (the Druids) teach likewise many things relating to the stars and their motions, the magnitude of the world and our earth, the nature of things and the power and prerogatives of the immortal gods.”

Britain not Gaul, was the centre or holy land of this formidable body and although Bardism compromised, disastrously for itself, with the Roman power in Gaul, here Druidism fought the invaders tooth and nail.

How far it was really driven out one cannot tell; it remained strong in Scotland, Wales and above all Ireland, whence the Christianised Druids returned as the missionaries known as Culdees and probably formed the background of great missionaries such as St. Columba (Columcille) who founded the Celtic Church in Britain.

The Arthurian traditions are clearly Druidic in their earlier forms, being part of a mystery teaching which includes the Welsh mythology."

Edited by Robert Baird
a note for Gnostic Bishop.
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Yes, and that crap is so completely trashed by facts I wonder why (even Wiki) allows it to still be the norm in places including schools.  Quoting your source:

 

Bronze Age cultures differed in their development of the first writing. According to archaeological evidence, cultures in Mesopotamia (cuneiform) and Egypt (hieroglyphs) developed the earliest viable writing systems.

 

Here are a few of thousands of academically accepted proofs to put the boots to THAT.

Gimbutas' work on Linear A, (ties in with a less known De Anna Emerson who goes further back and also has the I O Torus)

Flinders-Petrie knew of a Saharan script used for real communication a thousand years before Hieroglyphs in the Sahara. He wrote Formation of the Alphabet in the early 20th Century. It has been added to greatly. Your source is pure Bible Narrative dating just like Manetho (a proven paid hack for Ptolemy trying to aggrandize himself by connection to the DNN).

Strabo wrote that the celtiberians had a written language 7500 years BEFORE him. WRITTEN not tally system like cuneiform.

It took Alexander Marshack 25 years of fighting before academia finally agreed the Le Placard baton (deer antler) was an accurate lunar calendar produced near the then considered impossible Portuguese Neanderthal cross breed. My expertise in Ogham shows how a lunar calendar thought to be mere scratches by farm implements is Ogham. Marshack is now considered an academic but he was an amateur. His work in Australia on message sticks and more - takes us back to as much as 30,000 years. Last year archaeology also found a letter or symbol dated to 40,000 years ago - it looks like a wave on the ocean.

The double kiln at Dolni Vestonici reaches heat levels that produce many alloys and thus was proof of something that would produce an edge to a sword like Excalibur in 27,000 BCE. There are hundreds of kilns there. Spalling in caves produced alloys of copper long before that. This was an important secret. Here are threads you can read at World-Mysteries if you should wish to break free of the thrall of academic hegemony with religion and the Dark Ages.

Neolithic Calendars, Ogham and Aymara, Keltic Seafaring, Copper Keels and Red Ochre, A Million Years before Atlantis, Topper, Hueyatlaco, Inyo etc.

Here are some books of mine which you might find introductions to for free.

Neolithic Libraries

The Prehistoric Worldwide Import of the Great Lakes

Ancient Technology and The Lost Chord

many more

Here are some top Professorial types to research;

Professor Emeritus David Kelley in Alberta

Professor Emeritus Scherz in Wisconsin

Professor Jesse Jennings in Utah

Professor Cyclone Covey of Wake Forest

Professor Cyrus Gordon of NYU

Joan Price of the American Institute of archaeology

I have another hundred at this level and another hoard through the last two centuries who were on the trail of truth.

Edited by Robert Baird
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http://www.faculty.ucr.edu/~legneref...e/fellview.htm

The Libyan text mentioned can be found in New Guinea and Libya is where Carthage was - Phoenician!


The Prehistoric Worldwide Import of the Great Lakes

This is the Table of Contents for my book on the Old Copper Culture surrounding the pure orichalcum or copper of Lake Superior.

CHAPTER ONE: From 'Hell' and Back.

- The Canadian Encyclopedia says:

 
"The ancestors of the Iroquois can be traced backwards in New York State by archaeological evidence to at least 500 BC. And possibly as far back as 4,000 BC. The distinctive Iroquois culture of the historic period seems to have developed by about 1000 AD."

In order to take the Iroquois back to 4000 BC one has to find the Megwi and Adena before them were once people who lived in Poverty Point where Eurasiatic technology existed and tall people thrived in the Keltic mound building tradition.

CHAPTER TWO: Manitou's Mounds and Mississippi Mud.

- Professor Jesse Jennings wrote what the Smithsonian called 'authoritative' and in its third edition says:

 
"...are all the high cultures of the New World resultant from a diffusion of ideas, customs, artifacts, and religious-social practices of the OLD WORLD?"

- He also says: "Even more unusual at the two sites was the microflint work. The industry involved the striking of long, prismatic flakes from egg-shaped flint nodules or cores in a manner reminiscent of Eurasiatic Mesolithic industries."

CHAPTER THREE: Guardians of the Iberian Gateway (ST. Lawrence, Hudson).

- J. V. Wright is one of Canada's top academics and he wrote A History of the Native People's of Canada, Volume I, (10,000 - 1,000 B.C.) and he says:

 
"Historically documented native beliefs in Canada appear to have been quite similar to those of the pre-Christian Celtic, Germanic, and Scandinavian peoples as well as other parts of the world..."

- He also brings us: "The Allumette-1 and Morrison's Island-6 sites, in addition to other activities, they functioned as manufacturing centres of copper tools."

CHAPTER FOUR: The Great Wall of China Extends to Ohio's 'Giants'.

- Elizabeth Wayland Barber's The Mummies of Ǘrümchi says:

 
"Linguistically these twins show features lumping them most closely with the 'westernmost' Indo-European languages: Celtic and Italic.... But they are not particularly similar to their nearest geographical neighbors..."

- Also, she states: "What Professor Mair {University of Pennsylvania} recognized there stunned him. The mummies appeared to be neither Chinese nor Mongoloid in facial type; they looked, in fact, distinctively Caucasian..."

CHAPTER FIVE: Peru Shakes Hands With Poverty Point.

- "The rise and fall of Celtic sea power has been strangely neglected... Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, most of Book III of Caesar's De Bello Gallico is devoted to the greatest naval battle he was ever called upon to mount.... No less than 220 ships, all larger than and superior in construction to those of the opposing Roman navy under Admiral Brutus." These words from Professor Barraclough Fell set the truth of ancient worldwide travel and trade in motion.
- He is the champion of many and the outcast of his Harvard 'cronies' and other academics. There is no part of this planet were we will not show the Kelts or 'keltoi'.
- The artifacts found near the mound builder's main sites that came to me after doing this book include a Dream Dancer's Mask of metal which weighs two and a half pounds.


CHAPTER SIX: Memphremagog:

- The Catholic Encyclopedia says: "Finally, Josephus and others identify Magog with Scythia, but in antiquity this name was used to designate vaguely any northern population." Scythia is central to the birthplace of the Kelts as genetic research shows in 35-30,000 year ago time. http://www.ancient-origins.net/myths...art-one-001155 'Phre' is 'fire' from the 'sun' of Druidic or Heliopolitan sun worship which is the original root of Phremasonry according to Thomas Paine.
- The most telling evidence of European involvement in North America before Christ might be the 'extinct' or should I say 'immortal' North American horse that I think was like a Shetland Pony because there were no horses or artifacts thereof for the previous 5000 years. Here is an archaeologist of note by the name of Quimby, whose report goes most un-noted: "1954 The Old Copper Assemblage and Extinct Animals. American Antiquity 20: 169-170. Quimby analyses an occurrence of deeply buried copper artifacts and associated animal bones near Fort Williams in southwest Ontario. The discovery, made in 1913 and 1916, was recorded in a geological report. Quimby reasons that the site may date to the Altithermal, approximately 3500-2000 B.C., and that the bones are those of the bison and the extinct native horse."

CHAPTER SEVEN: Copper Making Secrets and Speculations About Crystalline or Stone Age Knowledge.

- I can show the reason for red ochre on Mungo Man's skeleton (and many other cultures around the world) is possibly connected to the alchemical (shamanic) use of cinnabar. This was adequate payment for the Beothuk who were in the northern Hudson Bay route for copper when the earth had not yet rebounded much from the glaciers retreat before moving with their Keltic family to L'anse Amour around the 6th Millennium B.C.
- Here is something spiritual about the 'immortal' element of mercury to consider. "Cinnabar will become mercury, and passing through a series of other sublimations, it is again turned into cinnabar, and thus it enables man to enjoy eternal life." This is from J. Bronowski's book and TV documentary produced by the BBC called The Ascent of Man.

CHAPTER EIGHT: Pre-Columbian and Post-Christian Americans from Europe.

- In Tucson we have on-going digs of irrigation canals and a civilization from 2000 BC but in the 1920s another more recent 'find' was made. It was by the top people in the science and handled in the appropriate manner but met a cover up to equal what happened at Manitoulin Island. Here is a little about this story from Ancient American. "Translation of the combined Latin text told a surprising story: 'In Memoriam Romani Actius: In memory of Romans Actius and Theodore, Consuls of great cities. We are carried forward on the sea (to) Calalus, {The site of present day Ocala in Florida, the name was taken from the Latin name of Porto Cale, Portugal. These Jews now meet the Toltecs and a man from the city of Rhodes - which was a key enduring fortification of the Keltic Phoenicians past the time of Posidonius who thought highly of them.} an unknown land (and) a people ruling wildly (Indians?). Toltezus (and) Silvanus are won over, Theodorus brings his forces from the city, Rhoda. And more than 700 are captured. No gold. They are (or shall be) banished from the city.
- {The metal tablets decipherment continues.}Theodorus, a man of the greatest valor, rules during 14 years. Iacobus rules during (after Theodorus) six years. God helping it (?) is not to be feared. In the name of Israel, Iacobus born again (in) the city.... Benjamin was king of the people. He came from Seine to Rome, the bravest of the Gauls..." The Benjaminites are central players in the intrigues of New World Order that are throughout history.

CHAPTER NINE: Debunkers and the Flat Earth Fiction.

- The web brings me the words of Theosophist scholars who add an important observation about the propaganda Rome used to gain ever greater control of this world. Rome as an Empire expanded whenever the people of Rome were dispossessed of booty from the evil wrought by their leaders. "Jewish scholars had already proved the similarity between the Laws of Moses and the philosophies of Plato, Aristotle and Pythagoras. Christians claimed that Jesus was a unique character, while the entire pagan world knew that the legends surrounding Jesus' life were identical with those of pagan gods. Students of comparative religion recognized their similarity to the traditions of great spiritual Teachers who had preceded Jesus."

CHAPTER TEN: Manitoulin Island and Mooring Stones.

- "The site's discoverer (Lee) was hounded from his Civil Service position into prolonged unemployment; publication outlets were cut off, the evidence was misrepresented by several prominent authors among the Brahmins; the tons of artifacts vanished into storage bins of the National Museum of Canada; for refusing to fire the discoverer the Director of the National Museum (Dr. Jacques Rousseau), who had proposed having a monograph on the site published, was himself fired and driven into exile; official positions of prestige and power were exercised in an effort to gain control over just six Sheguiandah specimens that had not gone under cover; and the site itself has been turned into a tourist resort." It has actually been built upon by a tourist campsite, just as the Kennewick Man site was covered over and pylons and trees sunk upon it the day before a congressional Bill was to take effect to protect it.
- Professor Emeritus James Scherz of the University of Wisconsin says: "More likely than not, they were but one of numerous peoples from around the world who were attracted to the copper riches found in the Upper Great Lakes Region of ancient America."


Cont\d

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"Mr. Baird has a real talent for spotting the blindingly obvious that most people miss." - Philip Gardiner; author of The Serpent Grail. He wrote that after having read the book which is laid out in the Introduction above. He took just one whole  night to read the whole book he said. I believe I could do the same.

Philip has gone on to write many more books. Here is an article of his from the Dragon Court website. He also wrote a book on Gnostics after we were in touch, I think.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/secretsoc/secretsoc12.htm

In this link you will see some truth about how it is possible to expose agendas and yet point the finger somewhere else - even back on those who claim the agenda does not exist.

http://vigilantcitizen.com/moviesandtv/how-hollywood-spreads-disinformation-about-secret-societies/

Edited by Robert Baird
a note for Gnostic Bishop.
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Anytime you want more. There is lots, and I don't even have to quote my books - nowadays every time I punch in what I already know I find a lot more evidence of it.

Botany, physics, epigenetics (DID NOT even exist before I was telling people about it), archaeology, paleoanthropological linguistics (A prof in San Diego who was amazed to hear about it 25 years ago), technology of all varieties, religions (every one), psychology (like Jung who only got part of the picture), Joseph Campbell (who tried to engage me in an airport), John Oppenheimer who tried to hire me, all maths, applied physics, microbiology (see Re-Discovering the Mind which I used in Masters courses in 1981 to blow the Prof a new asshole), economics, philosophy, memetics (Which I dare say all scholars in the field are just beginning to learn was well known long before the name existed) etc.

Socrates experienced something worse than being bought off because he refused to stop telling the truth or leave his country and countrymen. He was branded as a 'conspiracy theorist' and people could not grasp the possibilities he tried to lead them to question. One of those ancient concepts Socrates tried to impart through questioning authority is The Logos, which is also part of the Oroborous (or vice versa).
 
THE LOGOS
 
I have often used purpose therapy (along with Gestalt or Zen) in my efforts to help those who struggle with the alienating societal effects and outcomes from bad parenting and poor educational environments. I almost always discuss the simple choices made by Frankl in his concentration camp experiences. I give more credit to the University of Wisconsin than I do to Vienna as this Wikipedia article does. Vienna has influences that psychiatrists do not talk about (Other than Rhawn Joseph) and Frankl is more humane and human than most of them. It is good enough and well worth reading.
 
I can even say that I enjoyed drilling down into the word Noetic (See thread on the Institute of Noetic Sciences) and then seeing a discussion of alchemical principles derived from Bards like Hesiod. Of course they did not explain Bards or point out Socrates, Aristotle and Plato were alchemists. They did make reference to some "eclectic" cosmogonies that affected "Medieval" people. Here is a little of what this drilling lead to.
 
"In Aristotle's influential works, the term was carefully distinguished from sense perception, imagination and reason, although these terms are closely inter-related. The term was apparently already singled out by earlier philosophers such as Parmenides, whose works are largely lost. In post-Aristotelian discussions, the exact boundaries between perception, understanding of perception, and reasoning have not always agreed with the definitions of Aristotle, even though his terminology remains influential.
 
In the Aristotelian scheme, nous is the basic understanding or awareness which allows human beings to think rationally. For Aristotle, this was distinct from the processing of sensory perception, including the use of imagination and memory, which other animals can do. This therefore connects discussion of nous, to discussion of how the human mind sets definitions in a consistent and communicable way, and whether people must be born with some innate potential to understand the same universal categories the same logical ways. Deriving from this it was also sometimes argued, especially in classical and medieval philosophy, that the individual nous must require help of a spiritual and divine type. By this type of account, it came to be argued that the human understanding (nous) somehow stems from this cosmic nous, which is however not just a recipient of order, but a creator of it. Such explanations were influential in the development of medieval accounts of God, the immortality of the soul, and even the motions of the stars, in Europe, North Africa and the Middle East, amongst both eclectic philosophers and authors representing all the major faiths of their times."

I say you will find the root of epigenetics and a modern science beginning to learn metaphysics is the true REALITY in our ordered environment in the above words. Please read about Gravitational Wave Theory and an Article by a top microbiologist named Morowitz called Re-Discovering the Mind which was run in August 1980's Psychology Today. I also say the reason Erikson was made an outcast in Psychology after having been it's top guru; is because he learned the truer meanings in The Logos or spirituality. Tesla's whole life is credit to it's Harmonic (In the beginning was the WORD) or Divine Providential Purpose. In a list of the 20th Centuries leading psychological influences http://psychology.about.com/od/historyofpsychology/tp/ten-influential-psychologists.htm you will still find Erikson at number seven as well as the thoroughly trashed Skinner at the top of that list.
 
 
ARRRRGGGH! Just when I am starting to like Wikipedia I find an article saying semiotics might originate with St. Augustine! Any thought which you find attributed to him is either plagiarized by him or is a lie fomented by the church who bought him out of Manicheanism.
 
To say the study of signs originated in any classical culture or time is utter and complete nonsense. It reminds me of the academic talking about the shrine in Ephesus with the Cosmic or Druid eggs as being some sexual treat with a thousand breasts.
 
Surely someone at Wikipedia has heard about Qabala, Gematria, stelae and megaliths around the world, the Language of the BRDs or Green Languages?
 
Edited by Robert Baird
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